As Memory Fades, Motorists Start Paying L.A. County Red-light Camera Tickets Again, Even Though They Don't Have To
By Martin Hill
LibertyFight.com May 13, 2013
"Indeed, a no-show, no-pay situation will go to collection agency GC Services. But you can ignore its threatening notices with impunity, criminal defense attorney Mark A. Gallagher told us. "You can ignore a red-light ticket and get away with it," he says. "But you have to do it right." Gallagher's first rule: The ticket has to have been issued by an L.A. County law enforcement agency for a location inside the county. If you got it in Orange County or in any other area outside L.A. county lines you're out of luck.
His second rule: Don't mess with it. In other words, if you go online and set a court date for the ticket, then you've acknowledged it and basically promised to appear. Now you're on the hook for the fine and coming to court. Gallagher: You have to be careful if you've done anything with the ticket. If you got an extension or a court date, now you can't ignore it. You're punished for doing the right thing. Before doing that, he says, "Throw the ticket in trash can, throw the collection letter in the trash, and nothing bad will happen." Our experts say that the collection agency does not ding your credit reports if you ignore the bill. Beeber: "The collection agency does not notify a credit reporting agency."
It turns out though, that since memory of the articles fades, revenue has been steadily increasing back to the revenue coffers. Members of the public have started paying the tickets again, even though non-payment of the tickets in L.A. County is not enforced by the courts. We asked the editor of HighwayRobbery.net to comment on this matter.
Martin - Thanks for your interest in the much-suppressed story of the voluntary tickets in LA County.
Highwayrobbery.net has been keeping track of the fine money flowing from the LA County court to the various cities, and it has been growing steadily, probably because memory has faded and there's been nothing in the major media to remind people that the tickets are voluntary.
ALL red light camera tickets in LA County - including those issued by the sheriff on behalf of the MTA - are voluntary. You can ignore them. But it only works if you totally ignore the ticket. If you contact the court for an extension, you have acknowledged that you received the ticket, and I believe that the court will report you to the DMV if you do not follow thru and either pay the ticket or fight it and beat it.
Anyway, a good starting place would be Set # 2 on my LA County Docs page: http://highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsdocsLACountyDocsContd.html#Countywide. On that page is a link to my revenue spreadsheet, which pretty much tells the tale: Revenue dropped in half right after the Summer 2011 LA Times articles, but now is mostly back up to where it was before. With the help, in some cities, that starting as early as mid-Summer 2011 they compensated by dramatically increasing the number of tickets they issued.
The reason Set # 2 refers so much to articles and the comments on them is that many people who contact me are very conflicted about ignoring a ticket, and I sense that they need to see that lots of other people are ignoring the tickets. They want to go with the crowd. So, that is our audience - the sheep.
It would also be great if you could include a section about snitch tickets, as that would have statewide impact. The Press Enterprise did this article last month, [
RED LIGHT CAMERAS: Who's 'snitching' in Riverside? 4/16/13]
and it was rich in data, but it didn't do a good job of telling people how to tell the difference between a real ticket and a fake.
The editor of HighwayRobbery.net also had some critique about the Press Enterprise article.
"They mentioned, correctly, that there's two kinds of tickets, and said that the non-enforceable ones ask the owner to tell who was driving. Problem is that BOTH types of tickets have a form on the back asking for driver info, so the presence of that request is not a way for the public to identify a non-enforceable ticket. The reliable way to ID one of the non-enforceable tickets is that they do not have the name and address of the court on them. (And, if the city is using the new format prescribed by last year's SB 1303, the fake tickets will have a how-can-anyone-miss-that-all-caps heading saying "COURTESY NOTICE - THIS IS NOT A TICKET." The new heading - if the city is using it - presents an opportunity for a follow up - to see how it has affected the percentage of response to the fake tickets in 2013.)"
A Memorandum from the Pasadena, Ca Department of Transportation and Police Department to the City's Public Safety Committee dated December 5, 2011 revealed the details of their 'non enforcement' policy:
HighwayRobbery.net reminds us that "tickets from cities in LA County can be ignored because the LA County court does not report ignored tickets to the DMV. (That does not apply to other counties.)" The info about LA County tickets is here.
Also, be aware of "snitch tickets", fake tickets not issued by a court. The snitch ticket info is here. The great news is that people are fighting back, suing cities and red light camera companies and
beating these fraudulent tickets in court. As always, I highly recommend two great websites, HighwayRobbery.net and HelpIgotAticket.com for those ticketed in California.
A Memorandum from the Pasadena Department of Transportation and Police Department to the City's Public Safety Committee dated December 5, 2011 outlined the reasons for ending the program along with some revealing info (Courtsey of the excellent website HighwayRobbery.net:)
"In Los Angeles County, unlike other counties, the courts have elected to treat non-payment of red light camera violations differently than similar citations issued in person by sworn personnel. The net result of this action is that there is no effective penalty for non-payment of red light camera violations in Los Angeles County. As the lack of consequences has become better known by violators, the rate of non-payment has increased, thereby eroding the program's deterrent effect against red light running."
The document also noted that as more people opted to fight their tickets, the city began to lose revenue:
"The high cost of a citation and greater awareness of how LA County courts have been treating RLC citations has led to an increase in court challenges for RLC citations. The effect on Pasadena of these changes has been an increased number of court appearances for our officers to defend red light running citations. Overall, even with a reduced number of citations, sworn personnel are spending a greater proportion of their time testifying in court because of the increased challenges." [Pasadena scraps revenue cameras, but leaves dangerous mess in their wake (8/14/12).]
The info here in Set # 2 is applicable to camera tickets from all cities and agencies in LA County. But only in LA County.
The LA County Superior Court Does Not Report Ignored Red Light Camera Tickets to the DMV!
(This applies to red light camera tickets issued by all cities in LA County, the LA County sheriff, and from cameras near the MTA busway and light rail.)
From the testimony of a LAPD deputy chief, during the June 7, 2011 meeting of the Los Angeles Police Commission:
"There's no consequence for not paying the ticket on a photo red light [in LA County]. And currently if a percentage rate is paying and the general public understands that there is no consequence, there is a risk that many more will not pay. We have petitioned/appealed the [Los Angeles County] Superior Court to put teeth into this so that there will be a consequence. But that has met with the answer that they will not support it. "So there's no consequence [in LA County]. There's no warrant. This is not in queue when you renew your drivers license. This is not in queue when you register your car."
Transcript
... Paying a LA County red light camera ticket is voluntary - unless you've already contacted the court.
If you contact the court (or its website) and sign up for an extension, you are acknowledging that you received the ticket. If you then decide to do nothing further about the ticket and so do not take care of it by the extended due date, it is possible that the court could report you to the DMV. I do not know for sure. Press releases and articles are provided below so that you can decide for yourself.
Martin Hill is a Catholic paleoconservative and civil rights advocate. His work has been featured in the Los Angeles Daily News, San Gabriel Valley Tribune, The Orange County Register, KNBC4 TV Los Angeles, The Press Enterprise, LewRockwell.com, WhatReallyHappened.com, Infowars.com, PrisonPlanet.com, Economic Policy Journal, FreedomsPhoenix, Haaretz, TMZ, Veterans Today, Jonathan Turley blog, The Dr. Katherine Albrecht Show, National Motorists Association, RomanCatholicReport.com, WorldNetDaily, OverdriveOnline.com, Educate-Yourself.org, Dr. Kevin Barrett's Truth Jihad radio show, Strike-The-Root.com, ActivistPost.com, Los Angeles Catholic Lay Mission Newspaper, KFI AM 640, IamtheWitness.com, Redlands Daily Facts, BlackBoxVoting, The Michael Badnarik Show, The Wayne Madsen Report, Devvy.com, Rense.com, The Contra Costa Times, Pasadena Star News, Silicon Valley Mercury News, Long Beach Press Telegram, Inland Valley Daily Bulletin, L.A. Harbor Daily Breeze, CopBlock.org, DavidIcke.com, Whittier Daily News, KCLA FM Hollywood, The Fullerton Observer, Antiwar.com, From The Trenches World Report, and many others. Archives can be found at LibertyFight.com and DontWakeMeUp.Org.NOTE: The 'DISQUS' feature has been added to this site so you can leave your comments at the bottom of this page. No login is required, you can post as a guest
Red Light Camera Tickets Defeated In California By Martin Hill "The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists
it."-John Hay (1872)
An increasing number of motorists in California are doing their research and
challenging red-light camera tickets in court. Many have been successful in
fighting these tickets. Several of those who were convicted, have appealed
their conviction and got it overturned based on the city's failure to comply
with the California Vehicle Code. There are three basic defenses which
motorists have used sucessfully to beat these tickets:
Duration of the yellow light
Legal Notification required to motorists
Illegal Contigency Fee Contracts Used By Cities [Read full article
here.]
Got A Red Light Camera Ticket In California? I Highly Suggest HelpIGotATicket.com. I am particularly greatful for this website, as it has helped me beat over ten tickets in court. It is a free informational site. Many of my friends also beat their tickets after using the info at the site. A little knowledge of the law and your rights goes a long way. I had one particularly gratifying victory in San Bernardino County Superior Court of Appeals, where a panel of 3 Superior Court judges ruled for me and threw out the phony conviction that the first Superior Court hack judge in Rancho Cucamonga had handed down. I did not use a lawyer, I wrote my own legal brief after studying the info that applied to my case.
I also recommend the fantastic website HighwayRobbery.Net. This site has everything you need to know about fighting Red light cameras along with all the latest news, court rulings, etc.
NOTE: Visit our new website DontWakeMeUp.Org - Trucker's Civil Rights for more information on the Federal Civil Rights Lawsuit filed against the Texas Troopers for illegally demanding ID. You can also join the mailing list for updates.
4/16/13: WOKEN UP AGAIN! The irony of, on the very day I launch my new website DontWakMeUp.Org, it happens. Again. Today. UNREAL. Watch how these lunatics change course the second they see the camera. Keep your cameras ready, folks! The article and video can be seen here.
NEW! I know you're busy. Here is the SHORT VERSION: Cops can not wake you up when you're in the sleeper and demand ID. If you're confused about this, read this page. If you're still confused after reading it, you're a lost cause. DontWakeMeUp.org Short Version: Cops can't Wake up the sleeper (Otherwise Known as 'DontWakeMeUp for Dummies'.)
Martin Hill is a Catholic paleoconservative and civil rights advocate. His work has been featured in the Los Angeles Daily News, San Gabriel Valley Tribune, The Orange County Register, KNBC4 TV Los Angeles, The Press Enterprise, LewRockwell.com, WhatReallyHappened.com, Infowars.com, PrisonPlanet.com, Economic Policy Journal, FreedomsPhoenix, Haaretz, TMZ, Veterans Today, Jonathan Turley blog, The Dr. Katherine Albrecht Show, National Motorists Association, RomanCatholicReport.com, WorldNetDaily, OverdriveOnline.com, Educate-Yourself.org, Dr. Kevin Barrett's Truth Jihad radio show, Strike-The-Root.com, ActivistPost.com, Los Angeles Catholic Lay Mission Newspaper, KFI AM 640, IamtheWitness.com, Redlands Daily Facts, BlackBoxVoting, The Michael Badnarik Show, The Wayne Madsen Report, Devvy.com, Rense.com, The Contra Costa Times, Pasadena Star News, Silicon Valley Mercury News, Long Beach Press Telegram, Inland Valley Daily Bulletin, L.A. Harbor Daily Breeze, CopBlock.org, DavidIcke.com, Whittier Daily News, KCLA FM Hollywood, The Fullerton Observer, Antiwar.com, From The Trenches World Report, and many others. Archives can be found at LibertyFight.com and DontWakeMeUp.Org.
In this classic interview, which was conducted on July 1, 2009, Martin Hill of LibertyFight.com & Christie Czajkowski Discuss Fighting Traffic Tickets, Filming Cops, & The U.S. Police State. It is a very entertaining and comprehensive program. All the vids are embedded on one page here, but here are the individual links:
