Michael Nystrom, owner of the very busy libertarian discussion forum PopularLiberty (formerly DailyPaul.com)
has announced that he is closing his site down for good on December 31st. Nystrom had previously posted that he was considering shutting the site down over the past year or two, always to the consternation and upset of his members.
Nystrom was not a big fan of Rand Paul, so he changed the name of the site to Popular Liberty and ditched the 'Paul' moniker last year, to avoid having the site devolve into a Rand fan-boy site. He kept the DailyPaul.com archive here.
In the wake of his latest announcement, which this time is for real, users are scrambling to start new discussion forums so that they can keep a place to discuss events of the day, share ideas, keep in touch and maintain relationships they've formed over the years.
Nystrom's dramatic post began: [He goes by 'User 1'.]
So Long. All things must pass
Us - Community Member News
Hey remember last year on the Daily Paul I said that you should do something that scares you in 2015? People seemed to like that post a lot until they figured out the scary thing I was going to do was shut down the Daily Paul. They didn't like idea at all, which reveals a fundamental truth: When you do something that scares yourself, you're generally going to scare other people too.
The kinds of things that I suggested,
Find a new job. Come out of the closet. Ask that girl (guy) out on a date, or to marry you! Move across the world. Move across the country. Move across town. Change careers. Take on public speaking. Unlearn everything you've learned so far. Stop believing your own BS. Stop drinking whatever flavor of Kool Aid you happen to be drinking. Learn a new trick. Try a new belief. Shed your old skin. Whatever's not working for you, take it off like a ratty old pair of jeans, throw it away, leave it behind and don't look back.
are the kinds of scary things that also make other people uncomfortable, and unless you have an unusually risk-taking and supportive network of friends, they'll probably try to talk you out of it. People like it if you stay where you are, because it helps them stay where they are.
Find a new job? What's wrong with the one you've got? You're making money. Come out of the closet? I dunno man, people are going to look at you weird if you come out. Ask that girl (guy) out on a date, or to marry you!? What are you, crazy? S/he's way above you. Move? Why do you want to move? What's wrong with where you're at? You got a bed, you got a roof.
Et cetera, et cetera. You get the idea.
Sometimes those voices are so strong that you allow them to keep you where you are. Sometimes those voices are simply your own doubts.
Did you do something scary last year? I thought I did, but it turns out I only did something pretend scary. I shut down the Daily Paul, but then created an exact replica of it, only with a different name, hoping things would be different.
Ha ha ha! In retrospect, I find this to be most amusing. Like a guy who breaks up with his girlfriend only to end up going out with someone who may as well be her twin. Sometimes a couple is on the verge of breaking up but instead they get married, because the idea of being apart is just too painful to imagine. Both of those situations rather accurately describe what I did with this website.
PL is DP’s twin, but without the same ring. I couldn’t break up with her when I should have, so I married her instead.
A long time ago I stopped learning, growing or getting much joy from this project. In fact, it is mostly the opposite. It’s just like that Pink Floyd song.
Day after day, love turns gray, like the skin of a dying man
And night after night, we pretend it's all right
But I have grown older and you have grown colder
And nothing is very much fun any more
* * *
Remember in 2012, after Ron Paul dropped out of the race, how the Daily Paul turned into a giant snarling, snapping, yapping ball of infighting over who to support? It was just one big long horrible useless fight, day after day. Now we find ourselves back at that same juncture for 2016, and I view the prospect of going through that one more time with dread. We did it once already, and there is no possible way I can see of avoiding it. So I’m done. Now is the time for me to move on. I’ll be shutting down this website at the end of the year. I know it is like Deja vu all over again, but I haven’t figured out a way to get out of going through all of this twice.
I’ve been thinking about this for a while, but hit a kind of functional impasse in terms of how to let people know. Then I read something by David Foster Wallace that captured things perfectly:
Suppose you and I are acquaintances and we’re in my apartment having a conversation, and that at some point I want to terminate the conversation and not have you be in my apartment anymore. Very delicate social moment. Think of all the different ways I can try to handle it: 'Wow, look at the time'; ‘Could we finish this up later?’; ‘Could you please leave now?’; ‘Go’; ‘Get out’; ‘Get the hell out of here’; ‘Didn’t you say you had to be someplace?’; ’Time for you to hit the dusty trail, my friend’; ‘Off you go then, love’; or that sly old trephine-conversation-ender, ‘Well, I’m going to let you go now’
… in real life I always seem to have a hard time winding up a conversation or asking somebody to leave, and sometimes the moment becomes so delicate and fraught with social complexity that I'll get overwhelmed trying to sort out all the different possible ways of saying it and all the different implications of each option and will just sort of blank out and do it totally straight -- 'I want to terminate the conversation and not have you be in my apartment anymore' -- which evidently makes me look either as if I'm very rude and abrupt or as if I'm semi-autistic and have no sense of how to wind up a conversation gracefully...I've actually lost friends this way."
Maybe I’ll lose some friends this way as well, but I don’t think so. You've all been educated. You know the problems. You know what to do. In some cosmic way I think that me holding on to this website creates a logjam in the Universe that keeps others stuck as well. For anyone here in that situation, you are hereby released.
Thank you all. It has been a pleasure knowing you and serving you, and it has been nine years of my life that I’ll never forget.
Many posters have asked Nystrom why he doesn't just allow someone to buy the site and keep it going, and he has responded to those suggestions with a resounding 'no way!', insisting that his "people are not for sale."
Read the exchange here:
Crabacado replied on Tue, 12/15/2015 - 05:58
Can I make a suggestion Michael?
Why not donate PL to the members and just walk away....and maybe let us figure out what to do with it?
I mean, if you don't want to sell it to TIM, that is.
The end result would be the same for you, no? Your opportunity cost is not impacted in any way, and you carry on with your noble endeavors.
I have to be honest, my first impression after reading some of your comments lead me to think maybe you're angry and pissed off at the general membership here.
Do you hate us? Are you thinking the best way to punish us is via shutting it down?
I'm just curious
User 1 replied on Tue, 12/15/2015 - 07:23 Permalink
Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards
Come on, how would that be to just sell all these people? This ain't facebook, man! My people aren't for sale. I don't own you or control you, so how could I possibly sell you? There are all kind of forums across this great green Internet. It is ok to venture beyond these walls. Seriously, didn't you read what I wrote? Go do something scary.
So no, I'm not going to sell you. But donate PL to members and walk away? There is no way that would work. The only way a site like this is going to work is if the person who created it loves it and takes care of it. You can't just hand it off to someone and expect that level of care and responsibility.
The key is in the creation. That's why this thread is about creating something, even if it just starts small, like with a twitter account. Then it is yours. Then you care about it. Then you're interested in what is going on. You see it from a completely different perspective.
Running this site by committee is never going to work. There's enough fighting as it is in the threads, can you imagine the fighting over control of the site itself?
No, that would never work.
And now here I go again, feeling like I'm breaking up with someone:
No honey, I don't hate you. It's not you baby, it's me. You're really lovely, wonderful people and you're going to find a new place on the internet to hang out. It's just -- really, it's me.
Don't think of it as being punished, think of it as an opportunity. You've got an opportunity to bring your teachings of liberty to the rest of the internet, and the world.
Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards. Case in point, pulling an arrow back into a bow. Without that backward movement, the arrow would never have enough energy to shoot forward into space.
Do me a favor and just try it. Go make a twitter account and see. Twitter is huge.
Crabacado replied on Tue, 12/15/2015 - 09:53 Permalink
Okay, I get it now
You're kicking the birds out of the nest.
Thanks for everything Michael!
Mr. Nystrom, thanks for all the work, responsibility, expense, and legal liability (as Irene pointed out here about when Michael got sued) that you assumed, over the past ten(?) years.
This place now seems to be in chaos, and since I am not sure any 'single' new site is going to 'stick', or carry over EVERYONE, I'm gonna post this. PopularLiberty has what looks like three dozen or so people planning on "about starting a new site." I considered it, but when I saw there were already so many fish in the pan I said forget it, let everyone else sort it out.
I am just gonna leave this link in case PLers want to join this site that is already established and has existed for over ten years.
It's owned by a friend of mine, with no control freak mods at all. Most of the posters there have known each other for ten years or more, many of them in person. I know many of the posters at freedom4um personally, my wife and I have been to their homes, met and broke bread with them and their families. The site originated many years ago as a sane alternative to the DREADFUL FreeRepublic.com and it's various liberty oriented alternatives and off-shoots. FR, in the 1990s, had become a neocon propaganda outlet which had begun banning all non statists.
Christine the owner of freedom4um can tell you more about her site's history if you'd like to ask.
Freedom4um has evolved, grown, and shrunk over the years. No one likes Rand there, that I know of, for obvious reasons. That doesn't mean that Rand fans are not welcomed, but be ready for strong challenges on your positions. The 4um crowd, frankly, is known to be comprised of crochety NWO opponents of various stripes- male and female. Most threads are civil, but sometimes folks seem ready to 'throw down' at a moment's notice. LoL.
Criticism of Israel/ Zionism is NOT off limits or 'taboo' at 4um, nor is any other topic. Although believe it or not, 4um does actually have a few zionists who participate, too. Most people there, I'll be frank, have a long-drawn conclusion about izzy, the Israeli-terrorism, (9/11) the holohoax, etc, including me.
Anyway that's enough for an introduction, other than a welcome thread that christine posted this morning. You can find it here:
I'd like to invite posters from Popular Liberty to join us for open and lively discussion here at Freedom4um. Freedom4um is one of a very few political forums left where open and uncensored discussion is permitted and encouraged!
As stated in our 'mission statement', "We abhor political correctness and authoritarianism as well as thought control tyrants who would restrict another's speech."
We hope that you all will feel comfortable and welcomed. We look forward to getting to know you.
People can register for a username here:
http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/register.cgi and can view the 'latest comments' page here. The site has a great private 4um mail to send messages or communicate with other members. It also has one feature which PopularLiberty does not have, which i like a lot, and that's a ping list, where you can ping one or many particular users to your thread or to your comment or reply.
[Note: I was on Dr. Kevin Barrett's radio show this past Friday, December 4th, to discuss this case. You can listen here (2nd hour, after Robert Wenzel.) I had actually invited MacKenzie Wood and Her husband Brian to participate in the show, but they did not respond.]
Adams County, Idaho official ISP in the City of Council has been crawling all over my site for weeks, as recently as yesterday - in addition to the State of Idaho every day, even a week after we forced the sheriff to name Jack's killers. Stay tuned to LibertyFight.com for the latest ground-breaking coverage on this controversial case.
Watch Mike Rivero of WhatRealyHappened.com discuss the LibertyFight.com role in outing the names of Jack Yantis killers November 30th. He said it was "A victory for the independent media!" [Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - Hour 2.] Mike begins, "Here's an interesting story, a little bit of good news. You've probably been hearing about the killing of Jack Yantis and how the Idaho government and law
enforcement were trying to withhold the names of the police officers who killed him, "out of concern for the officer's safety."
Mike continues, "And over at LibertyFight.com they found out the names of the officers. Sheriffs Brian Wood and Cody Roland. And they put out a story, we carried it here at
WhatReallyHappened.com, it went VIRAL, and NOW the Idaho Sheriff has been forced to acknowledge yes, these are the people who killed Jack Yantis. So there's a
victory for the independent media! And a reminder that we have a little more influence on affairs than sometimes the government would like to believe. And that's DEFINITELY a plus."
In further reaction to our story, Ademo Freeman of CopBlock.org wrote: "Yesterday I posted an exceptional overview regarding the murder of Jack Yantis by two deputies in Idaho. The story was shared from LibertyFight.com and was written by Martin Hill. Today he emailed me again stating that the names have been released and that the below update was at his site. This goes to show the power of social media, public pressure and networking with each other to achieve a shared goal. I'd like to thank Mr. Hill for his dedication to this story, in the interest of transparency and justice."
William Grigg of the Pro Libertate blog wrote Martin, "congrats on compelling Zollman to disclose the shooters' names... All my best, Will."
Robert Wenzel of EconomicPolicyJpournal.com wrote:
"Kudos to Martin Hill for breaking open the full story of the murder of rancher Jack Yantis. Hill's reporting begins: '62-year-old Idaho rancher Jack Yantis was having a peaceful dinner with his family on Sunday, November 1st when the local Sheriff's dispatcher called to tell him that one of his bulls had been hit by a car and needed to be put down. Soon after he went to assist as requested, Yantis was shot to death on a dark roadside in front of his wife and nephew.' Read the full account, and Hill's identyfying, for the first time, the killers by name, here. [ Government-Trained SNIPER Kills Rancher About to Put Down His Injured Bull.]
Dr. Kevin Barrett of Truth Jihad.comwrote: "Martin has been doing great work on the killing of Idaho rancher Jack Yantis by two Adams County deputies - including publishing their names and forcing the Sheriff and the media to follow suit. Nice work, Martin!"
I have almost 9 million views on my youtube channel. But this video, with only 6,400 views, is still my absolute favorite. Be sure to watch this powerful video of a man who was shot by cops, charged with attempted murder of a police officer, spent 2 years in prison and was aquitted of all charges by a jury of 12, without a lawyer, representing himself! His webpage is here: "Shot In Reverse, Saved By God": The Vincent Arias Story
Martin Hill is a Catholic paleoconservative and civil rights advocate. His work has been featured in the Los Angeles Daily News, San Gabriel Valley Tribune, The Orange County Register, KNBC4 TV Los Angeles, The Press Enterprise, LewRockwell.com, WhatReallyHappened.com, Infowars.com, PrisonPlanet.com, Economic Policy Journal, TargetLiberty.com, FreedomsPhoenix, Haaretz, TMZ, Veterans Today, Jonathan Turley blog, The Dr. Katherine Albrecht Show, National Motorists Association, AmericanFreePress.net, RomanCatholicReport.com, WorldNetDaily, HenryMakow.com, OverdriveOnline.com, Educate-Yourself.org, TexeMarrs.com, Dr. Kevin Barrett's Truth Jihad radio show, Strike-The-Root.com, Pasadena Weekly, ActivistPost.com, Los Angeles Catholic Lay Mission Newspaper, KFI AM 640, IamtheWitness.com, Redlands Daily Facts, SaveTheMales.ca, BlackBoxVoting, The Michael Badnarik Show, The Wayne Madsen Report, Devvy.com, Rense.com, FromTheTrenchesWorldReport.com, BeforeItsNews.com, The Contra Costa Times, Pasadena Star News, Silicon Valley Mercury News, Long Beach Press Telegram, Inland Valley Daily Bulletin, L.A. Harbor Daily Breeze, CopBlock.org, DavidIcke.com, Whittier Daily News, KCLA FM Hollywood, The Fullerton Observer, Antiwar.com, From The Trenches World Report, and many others. Archives can be found at LibertyFight.com and DontWakeMeUp.Org.
"Try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the fruitless works of darkness; rather expose them, for it is shameful even to mention the things done by them in secret; but everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for everything that becomes visible is light.Ephesians 5:10-13
LATEST ON THE JACK YANTIS CASE FROM LibertyFight.com:
The local Adams County, Idaho Sheriff Ryan Zollman, whose officers slaughtered Yantis, in the past has tried to portray himself as a 'patriot' pro 2nd Amendment type. But you can be the judge on this one.
Sent: Sun 11/15/2015 6:39 AM
Hello Sheriff Zollman. I know you were asked at the town meeting last Tuesday if your deputies were trained by the Dept. of Homeland Security, to which you replied "NO."
Can I ask why you replied no, when all there are countless records in the official Adams County meeting minutes, not to mention reports in your town's local newspaper archives, outlining your DHS Grants, DHS funding, DHS classes for your deputies, which are required for you to get the grant money, forms to be filled out confirming that your deputies completed the DHS courses, DHS classes both online and in person, active shooter training classes paid for by DHS for your deputies, etc., etc.
Why did you answer NO to that question? If federal grant $$$ and federalized police training is so great, why deny it is occurring in your department?
A MESSAGE FROM LibertyFight.com: We are praying for the family of Jack Yantis and for his soul, may he rest in peace. This is a beautiful song called 'Blessed Are They.' Please also pray for the people who committed this atrocious killing, and for the people responsible for enacting justice in this matter.
"Blest are they, full of sorrow, they shall be consoled."
"Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied." Matthew 5:6
FAIR USE NOTICE: The above may be copyrighted material, and the use of it on LibertyFight.com may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available on a non-profit basis for educational and discussion purposes only. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in 17 USC S. 107. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.
ABC7 TV Eyewitness News reporter asked about the 'Dancing Israelis' "I'm not big on 'ambush journalism' and that's not what this was, but when a local KABC TV news crew interviewed me about a local jewelry store crash & grab heist near Los Angeles, I thought I'd have some fun with it. So after their interview I conducted a brief interview of my own, and asked the reporter if he ever heard of another group of bandits who were the only people arrested in New York City on September 11, 2001: The Dancing Israelis!
The ABC7 reporter was Q McCray; a nice professional gentleman. He's described on their website as "a general assignment reporter for ABC7 Eyewitness News." This question about the dancing Israelis was not to disparage him, but rather to illustrate two things: 1. that not many people may even know about these facts, including the people that the public supposedly gets its' important news from; and two, that we can keep these important issues in the public arena, even 14 years later."
Glassy-Eyed Dimwit Ben Carson Dons The Beanie 10/28/15 In case you missed it, Dr. Ben "No American should be Allowed to Have A Semi-Automatic Weapon" Carson paid his obligatory visit to the 'Wailing Wall' wearing his yarmulke. Carson, the dim-witted glassy-eyed Israeli shill, has also said that the millions of illegal aliens "uh, they could stay." He's also said "Al Sharpton and I Have the Same Goals." I am not kidding he actually has said all of those things. He just changed his party affiliation to Republican six months prior to running for president.
Glassy-Eyed Dimwit Ben Carson Dons The Beanie 10/28/15 - In case you missed it, Dr. Ben "No American should be Allowed to Have A Semi-Automatic Weapon" Carson paid his obligatory visit to the 'Wailing Wall' wearing his yarmulke. Carson, the dim-witted glassey-eyed Irsaeli shill, has also said that the mllions of illegal aliens "uh, they could stay." He's also said "Al Sharpton and I Have the Same Goals." I am not kidding he actually has said all of those things. He just changed his party affiliation to Republican six months prior to running for president.
The Ron Paul Bumper Sticker Is Still On My Car (Tearjerker tribute vid ;-)
Just for fun. This is a vid I made in 2008 after his campaign ended."remember the good times. A tribute to Dr. Paul and all his supporters who fight for freedom. Keep up the good work everyone!"
Several people at the time told me that this made them cry. ;-)
(BEAUTIFUL LOSER/ I WILL REMEMBER YOU')
[The background story of the video, and my introduction to Ron Paul (from my dad when I was a kid) , along with my dad and my trip to the first Ron Paul meet-up in Pasadena, California - a meeting which was featured in the New York Times (they falsely mis-characterized the entire meeting by the way, and claimed that there were a bunch of jew haters there when none of that is true! No one even mentoned Jews at that meeting.) is here.
My Visit To The Memorial to the "Up To Six Million" Murdered Jews of Europe - Berlin, Germany 8/23/15
This "highly visible" holocaust memorial is appropriately sandwiched between the infamous Reichstag Building, The U.S. Embassy, and the Homosexual Memorial Museum. The placard in the video states, in part, "In August 1988, the journalist Lea Rosh and the historian Eberhard Jackel made a public proposal for establishing a "highly visible memorial for the murdered Jews of Europe" in Berlin. On 25 June 1999, after long and drawn out debates, the German Bundestag finally passed a resolution to build a "Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe" based on the design by the New York architect, Peter Eisenman. On 10 May 2005 the Holocaust Memorial - comprising 2,711 concrete stelar and a subterraneon Information Centre - was officially opened to the public. The exhibition provides information about the Holocaust and the "authentic sites of remembrance". Moreover, it honours the up to six million Jewish victims from throughout Europe."
Neocon Glenn Beck calls for celebrating Ramadan by shooting all Guantanamo prisoners in the head Beck, an ardent supporter of Israel, in the past was touted as a possible running mate to Sarah Palin. He has likened Ron Paul supporters to terrorists and said that he "hates 9/11 victims families for asking questions". Beck stated, in part, "We can't let them starve themselves to death? Damn right we can. We can also shoot them in the head, which is the other option and the one I'm for. SHOOT THEM. But, the other is let them starve to death and I'm totally fine with that."
Palin and Beck 2012? A match straight out of hades 11/19/09 Sarah Palin, former governor of Alaska who is making the media rounds promoting her book Going Rogue, has said that she would consider TV host Glen Beck as a running mate if she ran for president in two years.
Palin continues standard establishment line on Israeli policy 11/18/09 Palin: "I disagree with the Obama administration on that. I believe that the Jewish settlements should be allowed to be expanded upon, because that population of Israel is, is going to grow. More and more Jewish people will be flocking to Israel in the days and weeks and months ahead. And I don't think that the Obama administration has any right to tell Israel that the Jewish settlements cannot expand."
Walters: "Even if its Palestinian areas?"
Palin: "I believe that the Jewish settlements should be allowed to expand."
Neocon pundits amp up demonization efforts in response to possible Ron Paul 2012 run 12/21/09 [Featured on Infowars.com and LewRockwell.com.] Beck: You raise money however you want, as long as you arent blowing other people up... Ron Paul supporters are tapping in to something that's very real... But if fringe elements turn that disenfranchisement into violence, we endanger the freedoms we're supposedly all fighting for... Okay, where am I wrong? The Ron Paul revolution. I think it's meant to be a catchy slogan, but I fear some of his fringe supporters are taking the word 'Revolution' too literally."
Flashback: "Why would Israel attack a ship that belonged to its only ally?" asks Israeli Ambassador 9/28/10
Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren, who was heckled by Muslim students in 2010 while giving a speech at UC Irvine in what became the infamous 'Irvine 11' case, is a stalwart defender of the official U.S.S. Liberty government story. The students, who called Oren a war criminal, were later criminally prosecuted by the Orange County, CA D.A. after an inflential rabbi held a private meeting with the district attorney's staff.
New law allows Israeli Air Force easy opportunity for a false flag in United States 7/20/12
Will the Israeli Air Force be used to carry out another false-flag attack in America? On Tuesday night, July 17th, the U.S. Congress passed the final version of the United States-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act of 2012 a bill which not only will give Israel hundreds of millions of dollars worth of 'surplus' military equipment, but will allow the Israeli Air Force to conduct "training and exercise opportunities in the United States". The bill was "Presented to President" Obama on July 19th but as of this writing has not yet been signed into law. Israel, along with the United States, has a long documented history of "false flag operations"- deceptive attacks which are generally conducted in order to deceive the public in order to get them to support new wars.
Eerie Predecessor of Chris Dorner: the James Beck Redux February 24, 2013
The Christopher Dorner saga has an eerie predecessor with many striking similarities, involving a 35-year old former police officer named James Beck. Police burned him to the ground inside a home during a standoff.